I should have known better. In fact I did but I fell for it anyway. Always, always, always listen to your gut. And don’t buy a car for a couple thousand bucks less from a company that gives you a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach.
Phantom Damage
I had a lovely episode with my “new” car this weekend. I brought it in for my 1st service to the Mark Kia service shop on Scottsdale between McDowell and McKellips on Saturday and was informed that there was all kinds of front end damage under the front of the car. The front undercarriage was torn, the radiator and condensor were damaged and pushed back. Some other bar was dented. WTF??!?!!?
So I get to the dealership to pick up my car and look under the front bumper and was shocked. First of all, the front undercarriage plastic was definitely damaged. I’ve never noticed it so something had to be going on. Either I just never noticed it or when the mechanic saw it, he kind of pulled it out to see what was going on behind or it happened that day at the dealership. I wouldn’t think I’d have missed it if it was already that like because it’s now almost screaming out to me. And then behind that, you could definitely see the radiator had been damaged and pushed back. It was crazy awful.
by phantom.357
With how bad it looked, I started freaking out because I have never, ever hit nor run over ANYTHING. I went & got the mechanic & asked about it. Asked what could have done that damage. He said it had to be something major. Even pointed out that the grill was tilted. I’m not super high maintenance so I had never seen any of this. I started wondering if this car had even been in an accident & then doctored up.
As I was standing there, my thoughts went to the fact that the car had been driven extensively before I bought it. That’s another lovely thing – when we were in final signing I noticed that the car had 1,800 miles on it. Didn’t find out anything about that until we probed. Might have been nice to mention that before trying to get us to sign on the dotted line??? So my thought is that maybe it happened back then before we got it. Later I also realized that it could have happened Saturday during the maintenance as well. Maybe it could have been damaged by a lift or something?
Well, I was fired up so I went over to the dealership and happened to see the manager that I’d dealt with when buying the car. I explained what happened and asked about any prior accidents or any problems when the Controller had driven it. Strangely, the mechanic from the service shop had wandered over (it was a decent distance) even though they’d just closed. Later I was wondering why he would have been there if it was just a normal situation. Looking back it seem suspicious that he would end up on the other side of the lot to talk about the damage if there wasn’t some prior conversation between them.
Well the manager went in to talk to some of the other folks. He came back out and said that I should bring it into the body shop on Monday so we could see the scope of what we were dealing with. He would also talk to the Controller to see if he had any issues.
Well it basically put me in an awful mood for the entire weekend. Looking back, I think I probably knew what the outcome was going to be. As I said, I’m an idiot. I’d had a bunch of previous transactions with this dealership and in hindsight, I knew I shouldn’t have bought that car.
Dealers of Sketch
We had actually been dealing with this dealership for many years. They used to have a service manager, John, who was awesome and who we really trusted. We brought our first Kia there all the time. When he left, the staff related to our disappointment as there must have been a good number of customers that felt that way. Then my cousin even worked there for a time and we bought our previous Kia from the dealership when he was there. After that though, things just went downhill.
First of all, we went in when they offered a trade in special over the radio. Of course when we went in, there were all kinds of special conditions and the variety of cars we were interested in didn’t work with that specific deal. It was total bait & switch. I think we were in there for 4 or 5 hours that night and left disgusted.
Then many months later when Heather was looking for a new car for me, she was researching and happened to call them and negotiated a great deal via phone and email. We both communicated that we had no desire to come in if there were any changes to this deal at all (because of the previous bad experience). Even though it was already negotiated, it took us 7+ hours (seriously) to finally get to the end.
by Leo Reynolds
The next really neat thing is that when we were doing the final paperwork on the car, the docs read that it had 1,800 miles on it. 1,800 miles on it???!??!? I understand that test drives can get a bit long but 1,800 miles??? It turns out that the Controller had driven this car for a number of months as his transport. Um…it would have been pretty cool to have this disclosed to us when we were making our deliberations on color and features. Instead they wait until the final signing?
Obviously it was a smart move because at this time, we were so fatigued with the process that we ended up going with it. I remember that I was a hair’s breadth from just walking at that time. I knew better. I totally knew. But we had invested so much time at that point, I couldn’t bring myself to make the right decision. So in hindsight, it’s my own fault.
Lessons Learned
I’m realizing that with a purchase like this, it’s just idiocy to prioritize a given amount of money over having comfort that you are doing business with ethical people who really care about you.
That’s one of my takeaways…whenever you buy anything of great expense and substance, the chief priority should be comfort with the ethics and service orientation of the business.
Then my other mistake was not inspecting the car. Another hard lesson. At that time (though it was 11pm or midnight), I should have had them put the car up on a lift and inspected it with great care. Of course I didn’t so I didn’t catch anything.
Sell & Dash
So when I went back Monday morning, the manager wasn’t there and I spoke to another manager who very nicely gave me a loaner and introduced me to the body shop manager. They said they would need to pull off the front bumper to make a detailed inspection. I asked who I would talk with about thing and also covered the scenario about the 1,800 miles on the car and the fact that I hadn’t ever had any type of incident that would cause this.
Well push forward about 5 hours and I get a voicemail. They’re basically giving me an estimate and looking for approval before they fix it. It was just over $1,500. And it also says that they came up with this pretty much by looking under the car. They didn’t bother to remove the front bumper. No mention about anything with the Controller or anything else.
So I’m pretty upset at this time. I call back and ask for the manager who I’d initially dealt with (and bought the car from). He basically tells me there is nothing that they are going to do. I could file an insurance claim or something & they might help with the deductible. Whatever. They didn’t care and it was pretty much tough luck. He didn’t even mention the Controller until I asked about this.
At this point, I’m pretty sure the only reason for the delay was to check and make sure there was no legal exposure. I don’t even have any confidence that he actually talked to the Controller. And like I said, they didn’t even bother to take the bumper off so I don’t believe they really even cared about determining the extent of the damage. If they weren’t going to cover or help with anything, who cares what it would end up costing.
I was livid at this point so I said I’d just come and get my car and that was it. He said fine, no problem.
Then when I got there and saw him, he asked if I’d gotten my keys yet. I said no and he said I could pick them up at the body shop. That was it. No conversation. No sorry. No concern. No attempt at service recovery. Nothing…
Then when I went to the body shop, same thing from the manager there. Nothing… He just gave my my key & said have a nice day. He knew the scenario and knew how upset I was yet didn’t make any mention of anything at all.
So basically it appears that they don’t give a shit. And all too comfortably so.
To me it’s pretty obvious that customer satisfaction is not a priority there. I believe that they are so used to this scenario that they have their strategies set to deal with it. When the pissed off customer comes in, don’t talk about the problem. Don’t mention it. Just let them fume & move along. Just let it go away & focus on the next sucker. Seems a little short sighted in the current economy but I know there are lots of companies that still operate this way. Customer satisfaction? Advocacy? Who gives a shit. Sell & duck…
A quick search shows quite mixed reviews on them.
- http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Mark.Kia.480-425-5300/review/list
- http://www.yelp.com/biz/mark-kia-scottsdale-2
- https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Mark-Mitsubishi-Kia-Scottsdale/155771654467006
More Lessons
It’s funny and timely. Seth Godin actually blogged on this exact scenario that same day. Serve em & duck for cover.
I’m realizing that with relationships like this, all you have to go on is ethics and the company’s customer philosophy. If you’ve bought a car from a company who doesn’t care, your exposure is huge and there is nothing you can do.
So if the damage did in fact happen on Saturday, oh well. There is no way that I can prove it. What recourse do I have? Pretty much none. I will investigate that but right now there doesn’t seem to be much. Again, all I have to rely on is the ethics of the company and the way they value their customer relationships. That’s it.
And I saved a thousand bucks and deserve what I get. Looking back, I was a complete idiot. There were so many signals making me uncomfortable dealing with this company. All the signs were there and I ignored them for the deal.
That will never happen again. Buying a car, buying a house….anything of significance, the primary thing that I consider will be the reputation of the vendor.
With the fact that I have less than zero confidence or trust in this company, I sure as hell wasn’t getting my car repaired there so I had to get out asap. I was so incensed at this point that I had to drive to a body shop where I know the owner to be completely ethical and amazingly customer service oriented just to talk to him.
It basically calmed me down.
He pretty much assured me of what I expected. There was no way that I was going to prove anything. I definitely should have inspected the car when I found out that there were 1,800 miles on it. And there was no way they were going to let me know if they jacked up my car while on-site. And he gave me some options on what to do.
The contrast was ridiculous. And knowing that there are businesses out there that are ethical and that care just reaffirmed how stupid I’d been to do business with them in the first place.
Mark Kia doesn’t care. At least, it’s obvious that they definitely didn’t care about me. I would caution anyone from ever buying a car there or doing anything at all there.
These are my takeaways.
- I’m an idiot. I knew better and I should have listened.
- Listen to your gut.
- In any purchase of substance, reputation of a business with regard to ethics and customer focus is the most important thing.
- If you buy a car with more than a hundred miles on it, look it over with a fine tooth comb.
- Don’t ever do business with Mark Kia. There are just far too many other dealerships out there that actually care and value their customers – or at least I hope there are.
thanks
I bought 3 cars from Mark Kia. The last one was a 2013 0ptima lx silver . I traded this for a 2013 optima lx white one. The salesman Don Saffort and Manager Barry Beresch said the were NO changes between 2012 and 2013. But there was. Mine bought 3 months before was sold to me wth a spoiler have proof of that and one of the managers saw it. Still they said no change. NO CHANGE were they blind,then maybe put on at port? Kia corp said no. I don’t know who put it on? Not ME. Maybe the dealer for a faster sale? Maybe it was preowned? Would be fraud. Lying to me, seems like fraud to me. Not telling the truth to sell a product. NO SPOILER? Never told that. Also NO SPARE TIRE? never told that. Its the principle of it.I just want the spoiler that my 2012 had. Remember NO CHANGE. I was also treated rudely, the General Manager telling me to leave the premises and saying NO SPOILER.What a unprofessional twerp guess mone and commissions are more then customer concerns. I was also advising people to by Kias there. That’s out. Being a Veteran during Vietnam, this was such a small concern compared to what I went through being a Paratrooper.I wont stand down and if I have to go to Arizona Consumer Affairs, I will. I deserve respect and not deceiving and lack of custumer relationships?? I know that Mark the owner who I spoke with last year when I bought my first car, would understand my story and rectify what was done to me. To bad his management put themselves first and would lie to keep their jobs. Status Quo. I knw people have been satisfied with them but then again, maybe they just woulnt stand up for their rights and know what they should be getting when they buy a car. I mean no tire, passenger seat to low in cheaper models etc. Just tell the TRUTH. That’s that’s honesty. Men never gave their lives for this country except for the values they believed in. These young people have no idea what being truthful really means. SELL<SELL<SELL. I hope Mark can resolve this concern I have.
jmayer33@cox.net
623-258-8221
HONESTY< HONESTY<HONESTY !!!!!!!!!!
Jeffrey, the thing is, I should have known better. My spider sense was tingling. I should have just walked even after the 5 or 6 hours or so. That was our 3rd Kia and 2nd car bought there too. :/
I sent proof of 2012 Kia with a picture of spoiler and temporary plate when I took it home.
What more proof do I need. A lie detector test?????? I don’t get it. They said no change between my 2012 optima lx and 2013 lx. Well here is the proof. I sent it to general manager. I havnt heard from them yet!
This concern has been rectified and all misunderstandings corrected
ou are right on target!! Sorry you had to deal with this. But didn’t you notice that most if not all sales were high or drunk? My salesman couldn’t even speak clearly, we walked out. It was like the worst sales experience I’ve ever had in my life. The owner is dumb as a door knob! I swear he seems like he has a 6th grade education. as all the salesman do too! .
On 6/25/2014, I contacted via email/internet, a car dealership about a 2006 Saturn VUE that I found. I was called very quickly about this car. I called my credit union about this car and got pre-approved for financing. I received an email confirming a price on the car of $4,652.00. I sent a text to the salesperson letting him know that I would be coming to the dealership on Thursday, 6/26/2014 by 9:00 AM. I was ready to make a deal and get a new-to-me car.
When I got to the dealership, I was quickly greeted and sat at a sales desk. The salesperson then started pulling up other vehicles for me to look at. When I told him I really wanted to see the VUE, he went to look for it. I sat with my 11 year old son in a car dealership for over 45 minutes waiting for my salesperson to find a car. But hey! The World Cup was on and the sales staff seemed very interested in the game. I was feeling forgotten about so I was getting ready to just leave. When that happened, he finally shows back up, but without the vehicle. He had a different vehicle; one that was $8,992.00. He lets me know that he can’t find the VUE. He said it looks like it was sent to auction. I wait another 20 minutes while he tries to continue to “find” the car. I decide, fine, let me look at the car he’s brought.
This car a 2006 Sorento has just been traded in. By “just traded” in, I mean it was dirty. Rear view mirror is broken, not even attached to the windshield. It hasn’t been washed, hasn’t gone through inspection, and hasn’t even been detailed. I can still look past this. I can see the potential in this car.
He asks if I have a car that I was looking to trade in. I do, or should say I did. So he looks it over. He then asks me for the keys to my car. I gave them to him thinking that someone from service was going to look over my car and see what its trade in value would be.
That isn’t what he did. He gave my car keys to the sales manager so that the sales manager could test drive my car. Why? Because the sales manager was interested in my car. For himself. For his own personal use. So, someone from the dealership test drove my car, without my permission. How do I know this? Because when I got back into my car, it was parked differently and in a different position. I don’t recall giving them permission to drive my car. But the sales manager was really interested in my car, so I guess that is okay. Except it isn’t. By a long shot.
He comes back to me with a printed out sheet with the Sorento information on it. I asked him for a breakdown of the fees, taxes, etc. He writes in black Sharpie $8,992.00 *Internet Special* plus $895.00 inspection fee, trade in allowance of $300.00. To me, this is not a breakdown. When I asked him for the breakdown of fees, any warranty information, taxes, license, etc., I was given on the back of the Sharpie page, handwritten the following:
$9,887.00 – $300.00 + $2,000.00 (service contract) + $500.00 GAP + $174.75 Plates + $498.00 doc fee + $762.17 Tax giving me a grand total of $13,521.92 to finance. Please remember that I came in looking at a car for $4,652.00. If I could put a picture of this on here, I would.
I take all of this information with me so that I can look it over, run my budget and see if I can afford this car that I’m not really interested in. I let the salesperson know on 6/28/2014 via text that I am just going to keep looking for something because it really isn’t something that I want.
I get a call from a sales manager, Jacob. Jacob is the quintessential used car salesperson stereotype. He blames me for the abysmal customer service that I received the day before. He tells me that the car could have been sold 30 minutes before I got there. The website is “under construction.” And then says to me, “It sounds like you just needed someone to vent to.” Jacob, if you’re reading this, you’re a jerk. I wasn’t serviced by your car dealership yesterday. I was almost taken advantage of. I was almost screwed over because your salesperson wanted a bigger commission. How dare you. I work very hard for my money too. When your paycheck is reflecting how well you service your customer, I’m guessing that yours is terrible because you know nothing of customer service.
As a side note, the 2006 Saturn VUE that I went in there to look at, VIN Number: 5GZCZ33D76S814824 and Stock Number: SP3317 is still on their website. It is still showing as available for sale at the dealership as if 6/27/2014 at 8:37 PM Arizona Time. But it now has a price of $4,583.00. I don’t know how this is possible since I was told that it was sent to auction and the website is “under construction.” The care is blue, so maybe it is a Tardis. Who knows? It must be a magic VUE. **Update: As of 7/10/2014 8:22 AM Arizona time, this car is still available for sale. It is now priced at $4,494.00. it must not have done well at “auction.”**
On Saturday 6/28/2014, I get an email from Jack Belsanti. It is a form email but I thought, “Why not share with the Mark Kia’s Sales Manager my crap-tastic experience?” I let him know to read my review of his dealership (and have since put this review everywhere I can) and basically shame on him for not servicing his customers and not holding his sales staff to a higher standard. He emailed me back letting me know that he was embarrassed and would be having a meeting with all those involved about expectations. I hope he had that meeting.
I have this review on their Facebook page to which I got a comment from an Amy Brock. “Anytime you trade in a vehicle a manager will drive your vehicle just as you drive theirs..” Funny how that’s all Amy got out of my review. It’s also crazy funny how Amy’s maiden name or other last name is Belsanti.
I have since continued my search for the perfect car for me. I contacted my credit union and was contacted by Tod at Centennial Sales and Leasing. He knew of my parameters and didn’t waste my time with cars that I wasn’t interested in. I did not end up buying from this group, but he was amazing. He only called me when he had something for me. I never once felt like he was trying to up sell me into something I didn’t want. If you have the time to have this group search for a car for you, DO IT.
I found a dealership in North Scottsdale called Discover Pre-Owned Auto Sales of Scottsdale. I called and spoke with the owner (RIGHT??? What owners do you know that actually answer the phone?). Frank was beyond kind and helpful. He wanted so much to help me find a car that would work for me. The cars in his showroom are just gorgeous. He introduced me to Anthony and you couldn’t ask for a better salesperson. Anthony showed me two cars. One of the cars was a hybrid and the other was a Sentra. Both of these cars are pristine for being used cars and they both have low miles for the price of the car. He spent a large portion of his morning to run some figures for me. He was even going to take my current car as a trade in. They also didn’t drive my car. All they did was look at it. He asked me to please do some research on hybrid batteries because there is some cost involved to replace them. The hybrid was the more expensive car. In his own way, I think he was trying to talk me out of it because those batteries are expensive! I walked away from this dealership knowing that if I didn’t find the car I really wanted, I was coming back to buy the Sentra. Frank and Anthony know how to service their customers. They treated me as if I was coming in to buy the most expensive car in their inventory. I’m sending them a thank you note even though I didn’t buy from them. That is how great these people are.
I did end up finding the car I wanted. I dealt with Bruce of Four Seasons Motor Company. This place is great. Customer service there was great. I caught Bruce at the end of another transaction and he found me the car I called about and it didn’t take him 45 minutes to do so. I looked it over and it was exactly what I’ve been looking for. He didn’t try to get me to look at more expensive cars. There were some there too. He took my car in trade and guess what? He didn’t drive it either. Huh, I guess Amy is wrong.
To sum up, my experience with Mark Kia of Scottsdale: Service was very bad, dreadful, awful, terrible, frightful, atrocious, disgraceful, deplorable, shameful, hopeless, lamentable, rotten crummy, appalling, pathetic, pitiful, woeful, useless, lousy, dire (pick your adjective and insert here). I will forever be telling ANYONE that I know to never go Mark Kia of Scottsdale or Mark Mitsubishi of Scottsdale. If I hadn’t been careful, I would have gotten taken advantage of. Thank you so much for wasting almost three hours of my life and precious time as well as three hours of your time and God willing and the creek don’t rise, countless possible sales. If you service your customer, you will have one for life. Congrats on your epic fail.
How do you say, “Bait and switch?!?!?!” This is how, “Mark Kia? Mark Kia!” Just like their commercials.
Thank you for sharing your detailed experience. I would rather avoid misfortunes done go through it and feel sorry later. Hope you have better luck somewhere else. I believe, there are STILL SOME HONEST PEOPLE out there. I don’t know how far you live, but for some simple car work, dana tires in Chandler are honest people.
I purchased my kia Sorento at Mark Kia.This dealership and the Mark Kia Collision Center are the worst.
The manager Harry Granger is just as rude as the manager Pierre Holderied of the Collision Center for Mark Kia.
I had $5,000 worth of body work done on my Kia Sorento that came with a lifetime warranty as long as I owned my vehicle.
I still own the vehicle and the paint job was done so poorly that it has peeled off all the way to the metal.
I took my Sorento back to Mark Kia with my paper work.
Pierre agreed that the paint should not have done this and that they need to look up my paper work .(even though I gave them A copy of my paper work).
Needless to say Pierre does not answer my e-mails.The manager Harry Granger from Mark/Kia called me and told me I was the proplem not them and hung the phone up on me.Harry will not call me back.No one will even answer my e-mails on how we are going to honor my warranty.I have even e-mailed the Distric manager of Mark/kia (Nathan Davis) and called him so far I have even been ignored by him.
Sad that even when a customer is correct they do nothing and make the customer spend endless hours looking for help from crooks like this.
I will write the BBB and the Attorney General.
Already complained to the Kia customer hot line.1-800-333-4kia.The customer hot line says if they get enough complaints on this dealership they can not allow them to sell Kia’s….
Thank You Chris for posting this on the web.this dealership should be picketted.
Thank you again
EVERYONE STAY AWAY FROM THIS DEALERSHIP
I bought from Mark Mitsubishi. I’ve always taken my Jeep to Bill Luke for service but since I’ve been doing extended warranty items I HAVE to take it to Mark. Last time I purchase or recommend Mark Mitsubishi. It’s been in 4 times for warranty items and I might have to put it in again because of the AC (They recharged it a few months ago and now it went out). Definitely think they’re doing something shady.